What is it that's different about the BIG winners - Pace and Cap

RichieP · 03-19-2006, 10:45 PM

I would sit at the Meadowlands with Bill and my friend Mark along with a couple of others and we would ask that question. I am talking about those making 50k a year and more. SERIOUS money if you will.

I was consumed by finding the answer for years. I am dead serious. 3 years ago I was fortunate to meet someone who was just that. A BIG winner consistently. I have bet with him several times on line for the entire day spanning hours and hours.

For anyone thinking there is some "secret" I can HONESTLY say there IS. You heard me right: there IS a secret. Actually should use the plural here:

Secrets of the BIG winner I know PERSONALLY:

1) Complete and detailed record keeping of what does and does not work.

2) Complete preperation the night before of paceline selection and advance identifying of potential betting opportunities. BATTLE PLAN if you will.

3) Bankroll strictly for wagering. Bets no more than 1 -2 % of bankroll.

4) CONSISTENT wagering strategy. Bets the same way ALL the time. NEVER varies. NEVER

5) Answers his own questions.

to ME this last one is the BIGGEST difference between him and us.
6) 100% EMOTION FREE wagering.

I NEVER have seen anything like it. Bets small relative to bankroll size ( substantial) and NEVER stops betting before ALL his potential opportunities have run. He NEVER goes broke and misses a bet cause of it. NEVER.

Losing streaks have NO effect on his PLAN. Family does NOT interfere cause he goes into his racing "office" and gets ALONE with himself.

He really isnt THAT much different from us as far as contender selection,hiding etc etc. I swear this is true.

what SEPERATES him are the above listed things. There he has NO equal. he is VICIOUS.

His way is having an effect on me slowly. I see changes in both my style of play and attitude. this last thing is MY Achillees heel cause I am way too EMOTIONAL to make it big. He has told me this several times. I HAVE to FOCUS on this weakness man.

EMOTION FREE WAGERING

EMOTION FREE WAGERING

EMOTION FREE WAGERING

EMOTION FREE WAGERING

Richie

tompkins · 03-20-2006, 12:37 AM

hit the nail on the head: very few prepare for that side of the equation, the money. It is a study all by itself.

tompkins · 03-20-2006, 12:50 AM

The Odds are on your Side - Cramer
Four Quarters of Horse Investing - Fiero
Dick Mitchell's multiple works all have good plans in this arena

RAMON201 · 03-20-2006, 07:33 AM

I had a similar experience at DRC in the 70s.At that time I was going to the track everyday and I kept seeing this guy by himself never betting just watching.After about a week and a half he finally made a bet.I couldnt take it any longer so I went over and introduced myself and after some small talk I asked why he had only made one bet in a week and a half.He went on to tell me that he worked the midnight shift and he added to his income by betting on horses. He would not make a bet unless he thought the horse was ready.He took all emotion out of the process.He was not in love with any horse , trainer or jockey. He kept hand written records in a little notebook he had with him.He used personal observation along with the information in the racing form. When he felt the horse was ready he bet.By the way, he went to the $50 window. This man had the patience of Job.He was not looking for action , only an advantage over the crowd.Theres a lesson here.

JimG · 03-20-2006, 09:04 AM

Hi Richie,

A couple of questions about your acquaintance. How did he bet? Was he betting multiple tracks or just one? Did he bet most races?

Jim

RichieP · 03-20-2006, 09:14 AM

Guys thanx so much for the feedback.
Richie

RichieP · 03-20-2006, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimG

Hi Richie,

A couple of questions about your acquaintance. How did he bet? Was he betting multiple tracks or just one? Did he bet most races?

Jim

Hi Jim,

He bets:
win
exacta

he bets one circuit he knows in and out with HUGE bets. Then he spot plays a handfull of other tracks looking for "situations" where he has an edge. These bets are nowhere near as big although still significant Jim.

On his home circuit he must bet at LEAST 50% of the races. Probably closer to 2/3 of them.

Other tracks maybe a race a card. something like that.

Richie

bobbyb · 03-20-2006, 10:08 AM

Threshold Ritchie - and this guy knew his.

My wife works in an Nursing Home - she admits them and discharges them either thru the front door or back. She never lets it bother her - never. Her thinking was simple: NEVER get PERSONAL.

Putting that into racing context, I very seldom sit with people I know/don't know that well; nor do I ever dine out or visit them off track. I'm trying to take their money and they know it. The gentleman you sat with, no doubt is a pro. He was kind to you - willing to share - very hard if not impossible IMO to find that type of person.

There is one like him that plays at Casino Rama occassionally. You can't get within 10 feet of his space; and I've seen him just get up and walk out when other players have approached him. They know he is a whale and a winner cause of the size of his bets (info gleaned from the tellers) - and he knows they are just trying to weasel a bet outta him. This guy is steely eyed and always cross looking like he's ready to take ya out - must work, as I've seen him personally walk away with MEGA dollars. Maybe he's related to my wife

bobbyb

bobbyb · 03-20-2006, 10:16 AM

ooops forgot to include:

This Player I described at Casino Rama - Bet 1 Track only - No Form, just printed notes (this guy was def. prepared). I don't know what his individual bets were (Win/Exact) but I would say on average during a nine race card he would play maybe 4/5 races.
Always purchased a SAM voucher upon entering, and cashed out when leaving. He NEVER bet in line that I ever saw.

bobbyb

traynor · 03-21-2006, 01:13 AM

RichieP wrote: <2) Complete preperation the night before of paceline selection and advance identifying of potential betting opportunities. BATTLE PLAN if you will.>

Look at this point again. There is something there that is concealed, and it is a major point. Having done this both ways, I can tell you from personal experience that one of the biggest improvements in your handicapping can spin directly from "complete preparation the night before."

In practice, that means pick the bettable races, pick the contenders, and pick the pace lines. The effect can be dramatic; when you separate the highly subjective, intuitive processes from the hardcore, logical, number-crunching processes, it is almost as if you are analyzing a race from two completely different perspectives.
Good Luck

03-19-2006, 10:45 PM	#1
RichieP Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,014	What is it that's different about the BIG winners I would sit at the Meadowlands with Bill and my friend Mark along with a couple of others and we would ask that question. I am talking about those making 50k a year and more. SERIOUS money if you will. I was consumed by finding the answer for years. I am dead serious. 3 years ago I was fortunate to meet someone who was just that. A BIG winner consistently. I have bet with him several times on line for the entire day spanning hours and hours. For anyone thinking there is some "secret" I can HONESTLY say there IS. You heard me right: there IS a secret. Actually should use the plural here: Secrets of the BIG winner I know PERSONALLY: 1) Complete and detailed record keeping of what does and does not work. 2) Complete preperation the night before of paceline selection and advance identifying of potential betting opportunities. BATTLE PLAN if you will. 3) Bankroll strictly for wagering. Bets no more than 1 -2 % of bankroll. 4) CONSISTENT wagering strategy. Bets the same way ALL the time. NEVER varies. NEVER 5) Answers his own questions. to ME this last one is the BIGGEST difference between him and us. 6) 100% EMOTION FREE wagering. I NEVER have seen anything like it. Bets small relative to bankroll size ( substantial) and NEVER stops betting before ALL his potential opportunities have run. He NEVER goes broke and misses a bet cause of it. NEVER. Losing streaks have NO effect on his PLAN. Family does NOT interfere cause he goes into his racing "office" and gets ALONE with himself. He really isnt THAT much different from us as far as contender selection,hiding etc etc. I swear this is true. what SEPERATES him are the above listed things. There he has NO equal. he is VICIOUS. His way is having an effect on me slowly. I see changes in both my style of play and attitude. this last thing is MY Achillees heel cause I am way too EMOTIONAL to make it big. He has told me this several times. I HAVE to FOCUS on this weakness man. EMOTION FREE WAGERING EMOTION FREE WAGERING EMOTION FREE WAGERING EMOTION FREE WAGERING Richie

03-20-2006, 12:37 AM	#2
tompkins Grade 1 Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 708	hit the nail on the head: very few prepare for that side of the equation, the money. It is a study all by itself. __________________ velocititian

03-20-2006, 12:50 AM	#3
tompkins Grade 1 Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 708	The Odds are on your Side - Cramer Four Quarters of Horse Investing - Fiero Dick Mitchell's multiple works all have good plans in this arena __________________ velocititian

03-20-2006, 07:33 AM	#4
RAMON201 Grade 1 Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 593	Big Winner I had a similar experience at DRC in the 70s.At that time I was going to the track everyday and I kept seeing this guy by himself never betting just watching.After about a week and a half he finally made a bet.I couldnt take it any longer so I went over and introduced myself and after some small talk I asked why he had only made one bet in a week and a half.He went on to tell me that he worked the midnight shift and he added to his income by betting on horses. He would not make a bet unless he thought the horse was ready.He took all emotion out of the process.He was not in love with any horse , trainer or jockey. He kept hand written records in a little notebook he had with him.He used personal observation along with the information in the racing form. When he felt the horse was ready he bet.By the way, he went to the $50 window. This man had the patience of Job.He was not looking for action , only an advantage over the crowd.Theres a lesson here.

03-20-2006, 09:14 AM	#6
RichieP Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,014	Tim and Ramon Guys thanx so much for the feedback. Richie

03-20-2006, 09:04 AM	#5
JimG Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 992	Hi Richie, A couple of questions about your acquaintance. How did he bet? Was he betting multiple tracks or just one? Did he bet most races? Jim

03-20-2006, 10:08 AM	#8
bobbyb NewBegining Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ontario Posts: 15	Threshold Ritchie - and this guy knew his. My wife works in an Nursing Home - she admits them and discharges them either thru the front door or back. She never lets it bother her - never. Her thinking was simple: NEVER get PERSONAL. Putting that into racing context, I very seldom sit with people I know/don't know that well; nor do I ever dine out or visit them off track. I'm trying to take their money and they know it. The gentleman you sat with, no doubt is a pro. He was kind to you - willing to share - very hard if not impossible IMO to find that type of person. There is one like him that plays at Casino Rama occassionally. You can't get within 10 feet of his space; and I've seen him just get up and walk out when other players have approached him. They know he is a whale and a winner cause of the size of his bets (info gleaned from the tellers) - and he knows they are just trying to weasel a bet outta him. This guy is steely eyed and always cross looking like he's ready to take ya out - must work, as I've seen him personally walk away with MEGA dollars. Maybe he's related to my wife bobbyb

03-20-2006, 10:16 AM	#9
bobbyb NewBegining Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ontario Posts: 15	ooops forgot to include: This Player I described at Casino Rama - Bet 1 Track only - No Form, just printed notes (this guy was def. prepared). I don't know what his individual bets were (Win/Exact) but I would say on average during a nine race card he would play maybe 4/5 races. Always purchased a SAM voucher upon entering, and cashed out when leaving. He NEVER bet in line that I ever saw. bobbyb

03-21-2006, 01:13 AM	#10
traynor AlwNW1X Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 13	Big Winners RichieP wrote: <2) Complete preperation the night before of paceline selection and advance identifying of potential betting opportunities. BATTLE PLAN if you will.> Look at this point again. There is something there that is concealed, and it is a major point. Having done this both ways, I can tell you from personal experience that one of the biggest improvements in your handicapping can spin directly from "complete preparation the night before." In practice, that means pick the bettable races, pick the contenders, and pick the pace lines. The effect can be dramatic; when you separate the highly subjective, intuitive processes from the hardcore, logical, number-crunching processes, it is almost as if you are analyzing a race from two completely different perspectives. Good Luck