Entropy 2- Betting to Place

[Bill V.]

I am with Ray and Bud here

The only or one a the few problems I have is when a horse wins a race where I can not give it a representative pace line. All Sartin programs are pace line driven or a horse is evaluated for the match up from its pace lines.

So I have no issue with any program in the Sartin tool kit
When I lose its not the programs fault

Good Skill

Bill

[Peteman]

Hi Ray,a odds exports to energy,the file is a rac file.

Hi Bill, you said a readout in entropy in the third panel is like an early vdc
that's the screen from Rays screen shots.what is the rating please.

Hi bebop jz,like you say now roi is in play.the methodology can give
you insights to what tracks to play.or not to play.where a rating is
paying good prices. Or like at Woodbine 6 fur has a good model and 7 fur
is not that hot.

[wilbur porter]

One of the problems I have (not with any posters or posts, but with my own greed and laziness) is that when someone posts an archival procedure or alternative handicapping methodology, I immediately abandon whatever I'm doing and search out the information that might give me an easier way to make some cash. When I read Ray's possible place-betting idea, I put aside my handicapping studies (I am presently going through my 2010-2011 PHA/Parx files and races to improve my pace line selection ability) and went through some of the old Follow Up magazines (ex: Issue 36) to read up on "Entropy" - which was one of the corollaries included on the RDDS 0.99 software.
I came to the conclusion then that it is an older equivalent of V/DC (velocity and deceleration) and began to go through a bevy of races to see if I could use it as a methodology rather than win betting. It seems that Ray and Bill are correct that it frequently points to the place horse, but it doesn't appear to me that the RDDS version could be used as a regular method of place handicapping. I think I'll follow Bill's and Doc's advice and refer to the V/DC more in exactas. Thanks to Ray and Bill for their observations. Now back to the 2010 and 2011 pacelines.

[Ted Craven]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noddub62
Ray or Bill or Ted,

What in RDSS would relate to Entropy?

Thanks,

Bud

Bud,

In RDSS (and Validator), V/DC is Entropy. Velocity relative to Deceleration. It's all in one readout.

You can read a very in depth article about Dr Sartin's journey from Entropy and Deceleration to Validator and V/DC, in Follow Up 76, starting on Page 64 'Futureworld - Successful Handicapping in the 21st Century'.

To a certain extent, Dr Sartin continues that discussion about Entropy and Deceleration in Follow Up 77, beginning Page 16.

The formula for V/DC is based on the concepts he describes in FU 76. When mixed with the BL/BL weighted line score (he mentions Total Energy, but he switched to the more complex BLBL), it achieves the accuracy he felt was the epitome of his life's work.

FWIW, the 'Entropy' factor from Validator is NOT Entropy from the old Entropy program (a maddening fooling-around with labeling). It is in effect the factor labelled as DCL (Deceleration) in RDSS and Spec160, so I eliminated the redundant Entropy factor (see this discussion about the discontinued Entropy and SPN readouts: http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8339)

Val4 = RDSS. Entropy lead to V/DC, which is in RDSS.

Dr Sartin would have been a crazy old dude to have taken a good program (Entropy) and 'burnt it down' if he did not think he was coming up with something better (Validator & V/DC). But he was anything but crazy! Entropy had too many numbers (or, exposed the derivation of the potent number) and so he felt people had too much to think about, too many decisions. And still, the velocity/deceleration concept, before being weighted by an overall performance measurement, often gave too much credit to those slow horses who naturally decelerated less. So he turned it into 1 number and weighted it by the weighted Primary Line score (BL/BL).

Voilà - the modern V/DC of Validator and RDSS.

If you are finding yourself baffled by too many numbers (even decelerating at the wrong moments ): consider simplifying your handicapping life.

Ted

[noddub62]

Thanks for the tutorial & I'll check out your links. I believe Doc titled it or refered to it as "White Papers" but it was a little over my hear at the time. Guess I'll go back and try to absorb it.

Bottom line for me though is to handicap using the KISS theory. Having found what works for me and not having to make a multitude of decisions and being consistent is my KISS!

Thanks,
Bud

[ray lopez]

one more sample race...PRX R3 6-3-2014...Entropy
The winner was Keepmeinstitches paid $5.80, second lowest score...the lowest score,Hotcha paid $5.80 to place...

[Ted Craven]

Originally Posted by Bill V.

I question some of Teds comments
I just don't think VDC is "all the entropy' readouts in one number.
Validator/RDSS2 Vdc is a great number USE IT But there is a difference

I can keep my comments about Entropy quite simple: every person who owns the Entropy program (i.e. who bought it from Doc Sartin) and who enjoys it and gets good use from it should definitely continue to use and profit from it. This forum is for those people to enjoy and benefit from (learn better use of their tools, share tips, teachings, etc).

Most members of Paceandcap will not have access to Entropy (or any of the other older programs) - they are not for sale, you can't get them anymore - unless someone makes you a free copy of theirs and hands it to you, and we have a long standing policy here of NOT enabling or supporting that.

Some people inevitably think that they might be 'missing out' on something by not having Entropy (or Energy or Thoromation, or whatever), and will waste valuable time and focus by wondering about that, instead of getting on with mastering the tools which ARE available.

Sure there are differences in Total Energy calculations between the old programs and RDSS - but all the differences are consistent within each program (e.g. it makes no difference if a beaten length is valued at 8 feet, 8.333 or 10 feet - as long as you use the same value uniformly throughout each program. Etc ...)

I'll let Doc speak (via Follow Up 76) as to what's included in V/DC, and where it came from.

As for accuracy, what to speak convenience, see the next post ...

Ted

[Ted Craven]

Originally Posted by ray lopez

one more sample race...PRX R3 6-3-2014...Entropy
The winner was Keepmeinstitches paid $5.80, second lowest score...the lowest score,Hotcha paid $5.80 to place...

RDSS - automated, out of the box, 0 minutes of user processing:



Admittedly not much of a stretch for Entropy, RDSS or most any program ...

Ted

[Bill V.]

Hi Ray

Race 7 The winner # 8 is ranked second
Keep up the good work

[ray lopez]

Bill,

If you use Val4 ,there are only 5 real contenders: 1- 1a- 3-4 and 8. and the #1 Myth Master was scratched...Using these remaining 4 horses,i put them through Jim Bradshaw's Aodds98 because of it's 4-call export capability to Entropy/Exdc/Kgen...You would have gotten the lowest score,#8 Timeseeker which won , only paid 2.80 to place,but it's still a 40% profit ...