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09-09-2014, 05:27 PM | #11 |
Grade 1
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Woodbine
Posts: 761
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Interesting, thanks for that Ted.
How a track gets groomed before the racing day starts can have an impact on the bias. For example, after the morning workouts at Woodbine, the track is generally Gallop Mastered, which means they are raking down 1½” in depth. Once a week they Cultivate the track after the morning workouts, which means they are raking down 4” in depth, or they might Roto-till the track which is 5” down in depth. The deeper they go the softer the track becomes, thus having a bias of slow or fast depending on the surface and track. As the surface gets raced on it gets compacted back down, and the type of grooming in between races will change the surface’ consistency. Was the track sealed the day before? If so, what was done to the track this morning? Then you factor in the sun, cloud cover, temperature, humidity, precipitation before/during/after, and you have another set of variables. What lacks in the industry is transparency, how many tracks are forthcoming with their track maintenance programs? |
09-09-2014, 07:08 PM | #12 |
The egg man
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carlsbad, California
Posts: 10,005
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factor analysis
Thanks Ted and Hoof
This is from the factor analysis manual August 9th was a Saturday Parx runs live racing Saturday Sunday Monday and Tuesdays unless there is a Monday holiday, In that case they may also run on Weds. They may card a race on Friday if its a big race weekend like the triple crown races or the breeders cup , When they came back to race on Saturday August 9th, they had not raced since Tuesday. I want to look closer at that first race on the 9th I find it odd that a MC 10 for 3+ F ( bottom of the class ladder ) would produce so many fast times Last edited by Bill V.; 09-09-2014 at 07:14 PM. |
09-11-2014, 09:39 PM | #13 |
The egg man
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carlsbad, California
Posts: 10,005
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does not seem to fit
Hi Ted
I have been looking this over. The explanation you got from track master may be good in general but I hope they take a closer look and see that there is something odd here. First of all This race is very aberrant but just for 1 horse. Look how Miss Molly blew away the field Pars Based on my Parx database par for Maiden $10,000 Females 3 or 4 and older is 24.6 49.3 115.2 and 142.6 Miss Molly alone exceeded par by running on a big lead and earning a 92 Final fraction ( phase 1 ) and a 138.7 final time . No other horse in the race ran to par. Here are the Phase 1 readouts for the previous 15 winners of MC 10000 for older females only Look how aberrant the readout are compared to the others. Miss molly ( listed last ) ran its LP and TPR and 3rd fraction energy Very different than the other 14 winners Lastly who else in the race ran faster than expected ? Using Valm the par POR for these 15 races would be a 63 speed rating Besides Miss Molly, Who else exceeds par ? only the place horse is close with a 59 When the PP's come out for each of the other horses from this 8/9/14 race this is how Valm will rate them I used a flat 16 DTV since they all ran on the same track anyway My theory is the race variant was set too fast only because 1 horse blew away the field I could very well be wrong but I don't see any reason to rate this race 8 points faster than every other race that day. |
09-23-2014, 11:11 PM | #14 |
The egg man
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carlsbad, California
Posts: 10,005
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Miss Molly "Line 2"
Miss Molly ran today 9/23/14 in race 5
Looking back at my previous post Valm calculated the final time of the 8/9/14 race to be 82 Track Master has given the race a 85 Miss Molly ran early but faded in the first race follow her maiden win but as this chart shows that race was a way to high class turf experiment ( because of the wild 3rd fraction) they tried her on the turf Today Miss Molly returned and ran in a CL 10 Non winner of 2 life I have tracked where the previous 15 MC 10 3 + F winners next ran follow their maiden win. In the other 15 races for 3 + F maidens This class level is seems the correct place. The problem is the 8/9/14 race is so aberrant. This further supports my feeling that the -9 is not true In today's race 9/23 race 5 Miss Molly has found her proper level but look how she ran Very Early with a Early % of over 70 Her Phase 1 numbers for today's race were EP 80 LP a very week 68.5 That is 23.5 points off the "92" she earned on a easy uncontested early lead on 8/9/14. Miss Molly is a early energy runner but that August 9th race final fraction will always mess up your Sartin Program readouts |
09-23-2014, 11:17 PM | #15 |
The egg man
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carlsbad, California
Posts: 10,005
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Par
Yesterday 9/22 race 9 was the next 8.0 3 + F MC10 race run since the
8/9/14 race The winner Sugeily ran just about to par Last edited by Bill V.; 09-23-2014 at 11:21 PM. |
09-24-2014, 12:36 AM | #16 | |
The egg man
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carlsbad, California
Posts: 10,005
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Does not hold up
Quote:
I have bold faced something that does not sit well First off If you have the Monmouth 8/22 card If you can checkout race 3 (I don't have the card) But I have the horse that finished 1st 3rd and 4th from the Parx 8/9/14 race If you can let me know what speed rating horse 5 Sweetpuddin who placed) earned in the 8/9/14 race ? It does not look to good since Swweetpudding ran in the back of the pack at MTH too According to what Trackmaster told you about their faster than in 6 months rule ( who thought this was a good idea ?) This does not appear to be a valid reason to give this race a fast adjustment We see Miss Molly did earn a WILD 85 SR I am curious to see how much faster Sweetpuddng ran in the 8/9/14 race If she did not then nobody else in the race ran faster than their normal speed rating ability Here are the other horses in the race besides Sweetpuddin These two horses who have run back both get very low speed ratings of 12 and 14 First View who finished 5th and Stormy Norma who finished 6th have not raced since the 8/9/14 race Last edited by Bill V.; 09-24-2014 at 12:44 AM. |
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09-24-2014, 04:40 PM | #17 |
Grade 1
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: pittsburgh, now! Lancaster, CA.
Posts: 2,531
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hello Bill v, please take some time and read this about TV. its long but interesting.
http://www.chef-de-race.com/pfs/variants.htm
__________________
i love every single minute of life, and, if one is lucky,then you must give it to others. |
09-24-2014, 05:36 PM | #18 |
The egg man
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carlsbad, California
Posts: 10,005
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Skimmed
Thanks Chef
I skimmed over the link. I will read it fully in a few minutes In the mean time from what I skimmed I still feel, and will believe until I see otherwise what speed rating was given to Sweeputtin (mth 8/20 race 3). I am at this point convinced that some sloppy recording by trackmaster is still the issue. I have tried my best to show that Miss Molly's race is not from a faster than the rest of the days races by 8 points track variant Its simply a case of a horse running a aberrant wicked fast 3rd fraction after getting a easy early lead The Parx 3 year best, and track record for 1 mile was set by Peasant. 134.77 Peasant is ordinary bread and butter claimer. Here are the RDSS readouts we saw before his record setting performance on Jan 4 2104. The race was a 16,000 claimer for non winners of a race in 6 months. The Trackmaster variant for that day was -29 or 29 fast ( frozen hard )? but unlike the trackmaster's alleged sloppy work on august 9th, every race on Jan 4th earns the same -29 variant. All the winners times are faster than par. Peasant earned a 104 speed rating. Its Phase 1 readouts were EPR 95 LPR 88 = 183 He ran 7 early on the early late and 68.35 percent medium. Last edited by Bill V.; 09-24-2014 at 05:39 PM. |
09-24-2014, 11:30 PM | #19 |
Grade 1
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: CAMBRIDGE,MA
Posts: 1,035
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Rverge, that was a good read!
Thanks for the post!! Mike |
09-25-2014, 05:14 PM | #20 |
Grade 1
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 318
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The methods of timing and chart calling are flawed. Whether the gate is placed properly or the timers are working correctly you just never know. When you add to this situation variant production that is computer generated, you have to expect these kinds of anomalies. Len Ragozin used to have his own timers at tracks around the country, particularly turf courses and time from the opening of the gate. So it is certainly acknowledged that horse racing is technology deficient and error prone.
Being forewarned is to be forearmed. You have to look at each horse past performances and note the lines that just don't belong. Horses can make major jumps in speed but it normally associated with maturation, change in surface or reaching fitness after a long layoff. When you see a speed figure that is haywire don't use it. Bradshaw always spoke of preponderance of evidence. Make sure that the circumstances exist that could possibly support a big improvement in speed. Examine and evaluate each running line from gate to wire and convince yourself that the race was legitimate. The tracks have to incentive to insure fidelity in there reported times and charts. The bigger the prices the better in their view. |
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