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Old 02-06-2017, 10:03 PM   #1
Kris R
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Guide Me

Hello to All,

Well, pardon me for my English it is not my primary language.
I am Kris R, I am new here and kindly excuse me if i post in this section.

A brief introduction about me, i love numbers and horse racing.. here in the philippines there are only 3 tracks ( 2 dirts and 1 turf). I only base my selections on past performances final time.

When i read stumbled upon the site. infos filled my mind. now i crave to learn the methodology and how can i apply it here.

the tracks here are run not in furlong or miles but by meters 1000 1200 1300 1400 1500 meters etc...

i will upload a sample of our race program....
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Old 02-07-2017, 12:18 PM   #2
mowens33
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Kris, here is my breakdown from meters, to feet, to furlongs:
Meters 1
Ft 3.28084

Meters Ft furlongs (rounded)
1000 3280.8 5.0
1100 3608.9 5.5
1200 3937.0 6.0
1300 4265.1 6.5
1400 4593.2 7.0
1500 4921.3 7.5
1600 5249.3 8.0
1700 5577.4 8.5

Looks like you do have fractional times, but they are presented differently.
Example first race Pinky’s Magic fractional breakdown:
~6.5-furlong race
7.2 sec is the (0.5 furlongs) Call
25.0 sec is the next 2 furlongs for 32.2 sec for the first 2.5 furlongs, using the methodology the 1st call in a spirit would be at the 2-furlong mark. But with that being said it looks workable.

The big problem I see is that you do not have beaten length on the race program (looks to me you only have position of the horse and lengths at the finish?). So without knowing the beaten lengths (at each point of call) we cannot make the feet per second calculation (unless the horse is in the lead), so we would be unable to make the pace of the horse calculations we need to calculate EP, AP, SP…etc

Mike
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Old 02-07-2017, 07:46 PM   #3
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Conditions of the race

I would need this before switching to evaluate distance?
Any more info would greatly improve your line selection
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Old 02-08-2017, 12:08 AM   #4
Kris R
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@mowens33 @delivery thank you

Greetings to Ted and All

As you can see in my previous post, the race program here in the Philippines is a lot different it lacks information.
some information about the race program are the horses' winning percentages in each of the three race tracks SL-San Lazaro race track (dirt) SC-Saddles and Clubs race track (dirt) and MT-Metro Turf race track (turf). in SL and SC usually it is GT good track in MT Fast rack. other infos are the horses breed,owner-trainer,jockey... no variant,no medications,speed ratings etc etc a lot is missing..

Anyways, my primary concern is how can I apply the methodology?
for example in race 1 the horse number 2 which is Pusong Bato finished the 1400 meter race, arriving 3rd with a time 1:27.2 or (87.2 seconds) he was beaten 7 lengths. The winner of the race was Gates of Money with a final time of 1:25.8 (85.8 seconds) the clockings of the race were 13.2 22.2 23.2 27.2 ( here we use tenths not fifths)
*note: you will see some ML in other horses which means the horse is beaten by 3.6 seconds or more...

the challenges I face are the following:

1. as i see it there are no clear info about beaten lengths on other clockings except for the final clocking which the horse Pusong Bato is beaten by 7 lengths which can be translated as 1.4 seconds.. is there a way or formula so i can somehow know or approximate the beaten lenghts in other clockings? there is a part of the race program that is a bit confusing for me, when you look at Pusong Bato's last race following the beaten lengths 7L there are two numbers next to it 4 and 2... i assume that it is the position of the horse on the 1/2 and 3/4 portion of the race.. but most of the time i interpret it as the lengths behind on the 1/2 and 3/4 portion of the race... your thoughts? how do you see it? is it the position or lengths behind?. (whenever i see a 0 on that part i assume that the horse is leading and when i see a 1 i assume that the horse is a length behind the leader.... and sometimes i assume that whenever I saw a 1 means the horse is leading.. that is why i am a bit confused).

2. i have read some info about the methodology.. and i am digesting every info about it. still i have question and i need clarifications and guidance... i understand that 1 furlong is approx 200 meters so 1000 meters is 5 furlongs 1200 meters is 6 furlongs and so on and so forth right? now how can i compute for ep sp ap in distances 1000 1200 1300 1400 and other distances up to 2000? what are the formulas? are F1 F2 F3, 1Fr 2Fr 3Fr, and Fr1 Fr2 Fr3 all the same? from my understanding each clocking is 400 meters or 2 furlong right? so what is the distance covered by the ep from the starting gate for the distances 1000 1200 1300 1400 1500 up to 2000 meters?

3. i have read some of the FOLLOW UP am interested in knowing the formula of the primary and secondary corollaries if it is known?... i know that the clockings must be converted to fps so...
is EP is equal to F1 or (F1+F2)/2 ?, TT=F2 only?, LP=F3?!, SP=(EP+F3)/2?, AP=(EP+SP)/2?, HE=(F2+F3)/2?, FX=(F1+F3)/2?, TOTAL ENERGY= F1+F2+F3?
formula for EPR=((F1*2)+F3)/2 or divided by 3 and LPR=(F1+(F3*2))/2 divided by 3?... CPR=(EPR+LPR)/2?
FW=(EP+HE)/2?, %E=EP/AP?, %M=F1+F2/F1+F2+F3?

4. when F1 F2 F3 is already expressed in fps (velocity) is it okay to use this to visualize how the race will unfold?

5. how can i compute for deceleration?

6. how to properly interpret the corollaries after assigning points to them thus it mean the lower the points the horse have the better the horse is?

7. how would you rank the corollaries based on its ability to predict the winner? how can i properly interpret %E and %M?

8. based on the information (refer to my example above) that i can extract or get from our racing form here in the Philippines what formula or corollaries i can use to have an edge..
Pardon me if I have a lot of questions I just want you all to know that I devote a lot of time putting the data on a spreadsheet to analyze the races. racing form here in the Philippines cant be downloaded it is bought in newspaper stands. in my opinion the racing here is so primitive LOL.
I hope that you all will have generous amount of patience and time to understand, answer, and guide me through my learning process of the methodology.

More POWER to ALL
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:30 AM   #5
mowens33
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as i see it there are no clear info about beaten lengths on other clockings except for the final clocking which the horse Pusong Bato is beaten by 7 lengths which can be translated as 1.4 seconds.. is there a way or formula so i can somehow know or approximate the beaten lenghts in other clockings? there is a part of the race program that is a bit confusing for me, when you look at Pusong Bato's last race following the beaten lengths 7L there are two numbers next to it 4 and 2... i assume that it is the position of the horse on the 1/2 and 3/4 portion of the race.. but most of the time i interpret it as the lengths behind on the 1/2 and 3/4 portion of the race... your thoughts? how do you see it? is it the position or lengths behind?. (whenever i see a 0 on that part i assume that the horse is leading and when i see a 1 i assume that the horse is a length behind the leader.... and sometimes i assume that whenever I saw a 1 means the horse is leading.. that is why i am a bit confuse

Kris, your assumption is correct the number after the 7L are beaten lengths and 0 means the horse is in the lead.

Need to look at this closer!

Mike
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Old 02-08-2017, 03:52 PM   #6
mowens33
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Keith, I created a spreadsheet for 1200M (6F) and 1600M (8F), I hope you find it helpful.
Still need to put some thought into the other distances?

Mike
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File Type: xlsx 1200M_1600M.xlsx (1.13 MB, 224 views)
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Old 02-08-2017, 03:58 PM   #7
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Other notes you may find helpful.

Mike
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File Type: zip Final Brohamer Series Part 3 Percent Early.zip (954.3 KB, 227 views)
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:04 PM   #8
Ted Craven
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Welcome Kris R to the Sartin Methodology! Sounds like you've hit the ground running with some good input so far.

All the best in adapting these ideas to Philippines racing!

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Last edited by Ted Craven; 02-08-2017 at 04:04 PM. Reason: moved this thread to the General Forum
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Old 02-08-2017, 07:14 PM   #9
Tim Y
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The Form you have appears very much like the Hong Kong FORM: No beaten lenghts. Tough to evaluate without them.
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Old 02-08-2017, 07:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Y View Post
The Form you have appears very much like the Hong Kong FORM: No beaten lenghts. Tough to evaluate without them.
Kris, thinking about similarity to Hong Kong Racing Form, HK has very detailed data available for sale which includes all the sectional times you need - though I hear that data is pricey, and is NOT the normal simple Form available to the common bettor.

Similarly - I wonder if either the Philippine Racing Commission or private data suppliers provide detailed sectional data for Philippine racing at a price?

Alternately, since you're in the same time zone and MANY Hong Kong betting syndicates are based in the Philippines - perhaps you'd like the challenge of biting the bullet and working out how to apply Methodology practices in Hong Kong, where at least there IS the data you need AND a great racing product!

If so, you'd not be the first (or tenth) person interested in adapting what we do to Hong Kong. I'd love to adapt RDSS one day to Hong Kong, but I think I'll point the RDSS tote analysis module there first ...

Just speculating!

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