How does the #1 horse qualify to race in this field? - Pace and Cap

Bill Lyster · 01-15-2013, 04:10 PM

Here are the conditions and PPs for the 1 horse. Horse won maiden and NW1X, has never started for a claiming price. I cannot see how the horse can face this field and would appreciate an explanation of these conditions and how the horse is eligible.

Thanks,
Bill

Bill V. · 01-15-2013, 07:06 PM

I would like to take a crack at this answer Bill

kind of like a public test

The key in the conditions is the wording

Has never won a race OTHER THAN .....

Thats the trick. for years I read it as has never ran in a claiming race
or any of the other conditions
But basically A horse can get into this as long as it has not won a stakes race or a claiming race valued at over 50,000

So as long as your a 3 year old Fillie
and have started for a claiming price of 50.000 or less or have not won an optional claiming price of 50,000 you can run in this race
So This horse has a maiden win which is ok
It has an alowance win which is OK
It ran in a OC 75 with a 55000 purse
so even though it ran in the higher
price than 50000 it has never won at that level

Hope thats it

Bill Lyster · 01-15-2013, 07:32 PM

Bill, thanks for your input:

there are several issues I have with the language of the conditions:
1. The horse has never started for any claiming price less than $50,000;
2. The allowance race it won was obviously not the maiden win, it was not a claiming win, and it was not an optional claimer like the last race back; unless they classify first level allowance races as being equal to $50,000 claiming (which I have seen referenced in the past)

This horse is the only one in this race that has won beyond the maiden ranks and would appear to have an advantage if allowed to start.

Again,

Many thanks,

Bill

For The Lead · 01-16-2013, 05:18 AM

First, let’s take a look at the race conditions as they appear in Equibase.

The first thing they says is, “Starter Optional Claiming $50,000”.
Sometimes you will see a similar condition that says, “Allowance Optional Claiming $xx,xxx”.
As an example, here are the conditions for the 8th race at PRX on 1.15.13.
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In one case it is called a “Starter” and the other an “Allowance”. They both go on to say “Optional Claiming” with a specified claiming price, whatever it may be.
So, the idea is this. You can enter your horse to be claimed for the specified price OR NOT.

With that in mind, let’s go over the condition in question.
The condition is in two parts. It starts by saying...
1 - “For Fillies three years old which have started for a claiming price of $50,000 or less AND which have never won a race other than maiden or claiming, OR
2 – claiming price $50,000.
Here is the Equibase condition.
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Therefore, in the case of the #1 horse, has this horse been entered to be claimed for $50,000?
A little research reveals that in its' last race it was entered to be claimed. Here is the chart.
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If so, that it how it is eligible to run in this race, even with the 2 wins, just like it was in its' last race.

Bill V. · 01-16-2013, 05:24 AM

Bill about The alowance win, further down in the conditions
Races for 30000 and less not considered .....

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Bill Lyster · 01-16-2013, 11:43 AM

Bud and Bill,
Thanks for the explanation, but I am still mystified, but its okay.

"Therefore, in the case of the #1 horse, has this horse been entered to be claimed for $50,000?"

Well, I guess I will have to chalk this one up to faith because it seems that the answer to the question is "No, this horse has not been entered to be claimed for $50,000"

Thanks,

Bill

sureshotlink · 01-16-2013, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Lyster

Bud and Bill,
Thanks for the explanation, but I am still mystified, but its okay.

"Therefore, in the case of the #1 horse, has this horse been entered to be claimed for $50,000?"

Well, I guess I will have to chalk this one up to faith because it seems that the answer to the question is "No, this horse has not been entered to be claimed for $50,000"

Thanks,

Bill

Thank you guy's for bringing the race to my attention.Not only was this charge class of the field it has velocity figs to match.Made my prime wager of the day....Took a gutsy ride from torres to get the money but at 5-2 was a great play!!

tks!

sureshotlink
los angeles,ca

For The Lead · 01-16-2013, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Lyster

Bud and Bill,
Thanks for the explanation, but I am still mystified, but its okay.

"Therefore, in the case of the #1 horse, has this horse been entered to be claimed for $50,000?"

Well, I guess I will have to chalk this one up to faith because it seems that the answer to the question is "No, this horse has not been entered to be claimed for $50,000"

Thanks,

Bill

It has nothing to do with "faith", Bill, it only has to do with the conditions.

How did you reach the conclusion that the #1 horse was NOT entered to be claimed?

It is the ONLY WAY the horse qualifies for the race, just as I laid it out in my post above.

For The Lead · 01-16-2013, 09:23 PM

Here's the chart from the 5th at GP today. I have marked it up so you can compare it to the horse's last race chart (above) from 12.16.12.

Notice that in BOTH RACES it was entered to be CLAIMED.

Bill Lyster · 01-17-2013, 03:09 PM

Bud:

I did not have a problem with the fact that Rhythm Queen was entered TODAY for $50,000, I just read the conditions as restricting who could race based on what happened BEFORE today.

If this horse had won a $40,000 claimer after its maiden win or several races at claiming prices less than $30,000 I could understand how it qualified for this race.

The horse had run 4 races in its career before this race. RQ's 1st two races were MSW races, then NW1X, then OC where it could be claimed for $75,000. So in my interpretation this horse has not started in a race with a claiming tag of $50,000 or less (again unless you count today's race). The "AND" part of the condition seems to have been violated as well, since the horse won the NW1X race where the stated purse was $30,000. I looked up that chart and the purse value for non Florida breds was really $25,000.

The parenthetical comment after the claiming price says "Races entered for $30,000 or less not considered". I read that as being entered for a claiming price of $30,000, not purse value. Is that correct? If they mean purse value it puts an entirely different meaning to the words I have been interpreting for a long time.

Bill

01-15-2013, 07:06 PM	#2
Bill V. The egg man Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Carlsbad, California Posts: 10,005	Other than I would like to take a crack at this answer Bill kind of like a public test The key in the conditions is the wording Has never won a race OTHER THAN ..... Thats the trick. for years I read it as has never ran in a claiming race or any of the other conditions But basically A horse can get into this as long as it has not won a stakes race or a claiming race valued at over 50,000 So as long as your a 3 year old Fillie and have started for a claiming price of 50.000 or less or have not won an optional claiming price of 50,000 you can run in this race So This horse has a maiden win which is ok It has an alowance win which is OK It ran in a OC 75 with a 55000 purse so even though it ran in the higher price than 50000 it has never won at that level Hope thats it

01-16-2013, 05:18 AM	#4
For The Lead Grade 1 Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,292	First, let’s take a look at the race conditions as they appear in Equibase. The first thing they says is, “Starter Optional Claiming $50,000”. Sometimes you will see a similar condition that says, “Allowance Optional Claiming $xx,xxx”. As an example, here are the conditions for the 8th race at PRX on 1.15.13. In one case it is called a “Starter” and the other an “Allowance”. They both go on to say “Optional Claiming” with a specified claiming price, whatever it may be. So, the idea is this. You can enter your horse to be claimed for the specified price OR NOT. With that in mind, let’s go over the condition in question. The condition is in two parts. It starts by saying... 1 - “For Fillies three years old which have started for a claiming price of $50,000 or less AND which have never won a race other than maiden or claiming, OR 2 – claiming price $50,000. Here is the Equibase condition. Therefore, in the case of the #1 horse, has this horse been entered to be claimed for $50,000? A little research reveals that in its' last race it was entered to be claimed. Here is the chart. If so, that it how it is eligible to run in this race, even with the 2 wins, just like it was in its' last race. __________________ "It's suppose to be hard. If it was easy, everybody would do it." Jimmy Dugan, A League of Their Own

01-16-2013, 05:24 AM	#5
Bill V. The egg man Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Carlsbad, California Posts: 10,005	30000 Bill about The alowance win, further down in the conditions Races for 30000 and less not considered .....

01-16-2013, 09:23 PM	#9
For The Lead Grade 1 Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,292	GP 1.16.13 5th race chart Here's the chart from the 5th at GP today. I have marked it up so you can compare it to the horse's last race chart (above) from 12.16.12. Notice that in BOTH RACES it was entered to be CLAIMED. Attached Images __________________ "It's suppose to be hard. If it was easy, everybody would do it." Jimmy Dugan, A League of Their Own

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01-15-2013, 04:10 PM	#1
Bill Lyster Grade 1 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Escondido CA just 25 minutes from where the turf meets the surf - "...at Del Mar" Posts: 2,418	How does the #1 horse qualify to race in this field? Here are the conditions and PPs for the 1 horse. Horse won maiden and NW1X, has never started for a claiming price. I cannot see how the horse can face this field and would appreciate an explanation of these conditions and how the horse is eligible. Thanks, Bill Attached Images

01-15-2013, 07:32 PM	#3
Bill Lyster Grade 1 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Escondido CA just 25 minutes from where the turf meets the surf - "...at Del Mar" Posts: 2,418	Bill, thanks for your input: there are several issues I have with the language of the conditions: 1. The horse has never started for any claiming price less than $50,000; 2. The allowance race it won was obviously not the maiden win, it was not a claiming win, and it was not an optional claimer like the last race back; unless they classify first level allowance races as being equal to $50,000 claiming (which I have seen referenced in the past) This horse is the only one in this race that has won beyond the maiden ranks and would appear to have an advantage if allowed to start. Again, Many thanks, Bill

01-16-2013, 11:43 AM	#6
Bill Lyster Grade 1 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Escondido CA just 25 minutes from where the turf meets the surf - "...at Del Mar" Posts: 2,418	Bud and Bill, Thanks for the explanation, but I am still mystified, but its okay. "Therefore, in the case of the #1 horse, has this horse been entered to be claimed for $50,000?" Well, I guess I will have to chalk this one up to faith because it seems that the answer to the question is "No, this horse has not been entered to be claimed for $50,000" Thanks, Bill

01-17-2013, 03:09 PM	#10
Bill Lyster Grade 1 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Escondido CA just 25 minutes from where the turf meets the surf - "...at Del Mar" Posts: 2,418	Bud: I did not have a problem with the fact that Rhythm Queen was entered TODAY for $50,000, I just read the conditions as restricting who could race based on what happened BEFORE today. If this horse had won a $40,000 claimer after its maiden win or several races at claiming prices less than $30,000 I could understand how it qualified for this race. The horse had run 4 races in its career before this race. RQ's 1st two races were MSW races, then NW1X, then OC where it could be claimed for $75,000. So in my interpretation this horse has not started in a race with a claiming tag of $50,000 or less (again unless you count today's race). The "AND" part of the condition seems to have been violated as well, since the horse won the NW1X race where the stated purse was $30,000. I looked up that chart and the purse value for non Florida breds was really $25,000. The parenthetical comment after the claiming price says "Races entered for $30,000 or less not considered". I read that as being entered for a claiming price of $30,000, not purse value. Is that correct? If they mean purse value it puts an entirely different meaning to the words I have been interpreting for a long time. Bill