X and O

[shoeless]

Bill,

Can you do a refresher on this?

Jeff

[Bill V.]

Sure thing Jeff

Here you go
First off the drill is to mark the good races with a +
The bad races with a 0 and races were the hore was involved competitively
against the POR but finished poorly , these guys get a (+) or Plus within an O

Here is an example
from today's AQU card ( which has been canceled )

I have marked the lines, my markings are just to the right of the finish positions .

RDSS does a nice job for us by marking the Plus races with colors and bold face , but its always a exercise to do on your own,
I also use the phase 1 readouts when looking at + 0 and (+)

[shoeless]

Bill

Well you taught me something never realized that those colors represented
the + races in RDSS

I was listening to the pace line tapes and Purdy was talking about using them, he
also mentioned how he looked at the horses PP'S from the bottom up. Another
handicapper who does it for a living told me he does it as well

You said you use the phase 1 readouts with them can you explain in
more detail

Jeff

Hope for the best for you, Dad and the rest of the family

[mick]

Bill V., thank you for another helpful post. And thank you, Jeff, for the request.

mick

[Tim Y]

JUST recognizing horses FINAL POSITION misses COMPLETELY, all those attempts at early pace improvement, the CLASSIC indicator or improving form (Often run against much faster paces of race and POSTIONALLY are hidden to casual analysis).

Horses IMPROVE intermittently NOT over a single race. If you miss out on improving contention on faster paces of race, you will lose out on MANY longer prices that the "head in the sands" PUBLIC loses ONLY looking at the END of a contest when it is IMPROVING EARLY SPEED is the hallmark of improving form.

FIND them BEFORE the crowd does

FORGET position and look at HOW the horse contended with the fractions.

[Bill V.]

Once again you bring nothing to the table, You just pop in to any thread and keep repeating very superficially about early pace.

if you really had a legitimate view of the power of the value of doing your notations, and had read what is written in the follow up, you would know that
position and pace of race are both used to determine if pace lines
are plus plus within a zero or zero,

Please If you have opinions on things Try to either start your own thread
put please don't just highjack every thread with this same talk over and over about early POR

Show us something

Bill

[Mitch44]

Anyone can see who is fastest at the 1st or 2nd call, the question remains can it hold up at the finish. If what you say is true than EP,SP & S types would never get up and they do consistently day in and day out and at better prices. Pace handicapping considers the effect of the early pace regardless of who has the lead. Every race and every day there are many horses that have the lead that never finish let alone win. If that's all there was to horse racing than winners wouldn't even pay $2.10 and the game would cease.

Yes "Great spirts" like Sartin, Bradshaw , Brohamer etc. get it and the "mediocre minds" who think early speed is the end all never do. Pace handicappers do like taking their money through and their only contribution to the game is their money donated daily. Hell they can't even deduct the loses on taxes without being a winner.

Bill V. brought up an excellent point in that one should start their own thread rather than disrupt a good thread by going off topic. If one can't contribute to the topic at hand they should remain out. I have never seen anyone destroy more good topics with early speed or how class is unimportant etc. when the subject is about totally different subjects.
TOPIC BLOCKERS due a real disservice to those trying to learn and ruin many before they get their feet wet. As a youngster I had a teacher who said "There is something wrong with someone that changes the subject." For newbies here and old heads choose wisely or be brain washed into false premises by losers looking for company and sympathy.

Mitch44

[Lt1]

Well said Bill and Mitch. I think some folks think when off the pace horses are talked about winning at a particular track that we are talking about Silky Sullivan types coming from 15 behind when in fact we are not. Check the result charts for the tracks you play. Know where horses can be at the 2nd call and still win. Please remember the race doesn't end at the 2nd call. It is generally true that tactical runners do have an advantage but I think folks tend to think that means on the lead or very close to it when in fact many horse can and do win from 5 or 6 behind at the 2nd call. Bottom line know your track.
Tim G

[Tim Y]

Cogent understanding of ANY TOPIC (at least for the rational student) encompasses all logical points of observed experience.

NO subject from the content of Cocoa Puffs, to the internal tax codes of Spain are anything BUT multi-factorial.

Parimutuel wagering is a COMPETITIVE game, and one has to look with a different eye to be successful LONG TERM.

Variations on the same subject hardly stand the test of changing the subject.

[shoeless]

Bill

Getting back to the original topic really good article that you pointed
out in Follow Up 56 on using X's and O's

Thanks