Non Contenders - Pace and Cap

Bob Cochran · 02-05-2007, 10:52 AM

I am tossing this idea into the Pac&Cap environment.

Let's do this. List a track(race or races). List your non contenders before
you fire up any software. List your reason/s for eliminating non contenders.
This way, many of the reasons for eliminating non contenders can be shared.

After awhile, you will find you are using fewer horses and your readouts will
appear more meaningful. The corollaries in your software will provide a means
to separate ties and such. The output will be cleaner.

Anyone wish to share thoughts on this thread ?? I feel this would be a big
help for beginners and us "experts" alike lol

Welcome !

shoeless · 02-05-2007, 06:29 PM

Bob,You made a good presentation on this at the KC Seminar awhile back.I was listening to the tape of it the only problem was I didnt have all of the tapes from there.Jeff

Houndog · 02-05-2007, 06:42 PM

Bob, I agree with your comment on non-contenders. I try to eliminate as many horses as I can before turning on the computer. I think this is especially important if you are using a program such as Energy, because the adjustments are made by the horses entered. It will boost slow horses and make fast horses slower.

Also, just as you say the readouts are clearer and make more sense when you eliminate non-contenders.

Bob Cochran · 02-05-2007, 08:27 PM

During the development of the earlier programs, many people became
over zealous when using the different types of adjustments. They would
adjust non contenders and lose races.

This is why Jim B. looked at the horses RAW.

Bob Cochran · 02-06-2007, 09:51 AM

This is an example race for 02-06-07 Turf Paradise
The horses are listed in post position order. The race was processed
before scratches were known due to an appointment this afternoon, but
this will give you an idea about the discussion readout clarity.

Bob Cochran · 02-06-2007, 10:51 AM

this is how the true contenders appear in Workhorse

RichieP · 02-06-2007, 11:32 AM

What a great idea Bob!

Maybe you could consider running this idea for us maybe once or twice a week here. Have folks come in and pick contenders with their reasoning.

Here is my take on your race

#1 - way too far out positionally last 2 races - out

#2 - slow - out

#3 - slow - out

#4 - closest last race positionally at 1c against fastest pace(ignoring the 9 who is a "stop on it's own frontrunner) - Contender

#5 -Tandem winner in last having defeated the 6 and 2. Can also be placed closer to the lead positionally by considering line 9 from Emd - Contender

#6 - uncharacteristic poor break for this one in last still came a bit at the end. line 3 back puts him closer to lead and shows fighting ability from the 2c to the finish - Contender

#7 - slow last 2 and if he tries to run a bit early today (like line 3) the 9 kills his chances - out

#8 - horse has no running style. it confuses itself man! - out

#9 - horse stops on it's own - out

#10 - way too far out positionally. - out

#11 - just broke maiden closing powerfully on really slow track. 3 back runs very close postionally to FAST pace. - Contender

Contenders
4
5
6
11

Here they are RAW

RichieP · 02-06-2007, 11:33 AM

Adjusted

shoeless · 02-06-2007, 05:41 PM

Bob and Richie,Great stuff both of you have posted there.Jeff

RichieP · 02-06-2007, 06:04 PM

The result chart

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02-05-2007, 10:52 AM	#1
Bob Cochran Grade 1 Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 330	Non Contenders I am tossing this idea into the Pac&Cap environment. Let's do this. List a track(race or races). List your non contenders before you fire up any software. List your reason/s for eliminating non contenders. This way, many of the reasons for eliminating non contenders can be shared. After awhile, you will find you are using fewer horses and your readouts will appear more meaningful. The corollaries in your software will provide a means to separate ties and such. The output will be cleaner. Anyone wish to share thoughts on this thread ?? I feel this would be a big help for beginners and us "experts" alike lol Welcome !

02-05-2007, 06:29 PM	#2
shoeless Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,660	Bob,You made a good presentation on this at the KC Seminar awhile back.I was listening to the tape of it the only problem was I didnt have all of the tapes from there.Jeff

02-05-2007, 06:42 PM	#3
Houndog Grade 1 Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,258	Non-Contenders Bob, I agree with your comment on non-contenders. I try to eliminate as many horses as I can before turning on the computer. I think this is especially important if you are using a program such as Energy, because the adjustments are made by the horses entered. It will boost slow horses and make fast horses slower. Also, just as you say the readouts are clearer and make more sense when you eliminate non-contenders.

02-05-2007, 08:27 PM	#4
Bob Cochran Grade 1 Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 330	non contenders During the development of the earlier programs, many people became over zealous when using the different types of adjustments. They would adjust non contenders and lose races. This is why Jim B. looked at the horses RAW.

02-06-2007, 09:51 AM	#5
Bob Cochran Grade 1 Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 330	Eliminating non contenders This is an example race for 02-06-07 Turf Paradise The horses are listed in post position order. The race was processed before scratches were known due to an appointment this afternoon, but this will give you an idea about the discussion readout clarity. Attached Images

02-06-2007, 10:51 AM	#6
Bob Cochran Grade 1 Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 330	contender screen this is how the true contenders appear in Workhorse Attached Images

02-06-2007, 11:32 AM	#7
RichieP Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,019	What a great idea Bob! Maybe you could consider running this idea for us maybe once or twice a week here. Have folks come in and pick contenders with their reasoning. Here is my take on your race #1 - way too far out positionally last 2 races - out #2 - slow - out #3 - slow - out #4 - closest last race positionally at 1c against fastest pace(ignoring the 9 who is a "stop on it's own frontrunner) - Contender #5 -Tandem winner in last having defeated the 6 and 2. Can also be placed closer to the lead positionally by considering line 9 from Emd - Contender #6 - uncharacteristic poor break for this one in last still came a bit at the end. line 3 back puts him closer to lead and shows fighting ability from the 2c to the finish - Contender #7 - slow last 2 and if he tries to run a bit early today (like line 3) the 9 kills his chances - out #8 - horse has no running style. it confuses itself man! - out #9 - horse stops on it's own - out #10 - way too far out positionally. - out #11 - just broke maiden closing powerfully on really slow track. 3 back runs very close postionally to FAST pace. - Contender Contenders 4 5 6 11 Here they are RAW Attached Images __________________ "Grampy I'm talking to you!" Last edited by RichieP; 02-06-2007 at 11:54 AM.

02-06-2007, 11:33 AM	#8
RichieP Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,019	Adjusted Adjusted Attached Images __________________ "Grampy I'm talking to you!"

02-06-2007, 05:41 PM	#9
shoeless Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,660	Bob and Richie,Great stuff both of you have posted there.Jeff

02-06-2007, 06:04 PM	#10
RichieP Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,019	Result chart - Tup Race 6 The result chart Attached Images __________________ "Grampy I'm talking to you!"