Go Back   Pace and Cap - Sartin Methodology & The Match Up > RDSS - Leverage/Pace
Get RDSS
Google Site Search Get RDSS Sartin Library RDSS FAQs Conduct Register Site FAQ Members List Today's Posts

RDSS - Leverage/Pace Discussion about a NEW RDSS approach to identifying Key Contenders, the Pace Bias and a structured betting approach

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-20-2026, 12:56 PM   #1
kahunab
Grade 1
 
kahunab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 308
Fractals: What can they tell us?

I have often wondered about the Fractal ratings on the BL/BL screen, so I decided to analyze how well they predicted Win, Place, Show, Exactas and Trifectas with our almost 4900 race database. (Remember that to standardize our findings we did not adjust lines. All our lines are chosen by Best Perceptor Last 3 Comparable.) Here is the findings in a PDF document that shows all the comparisons. What do you think?

FRL_Surface_Distance_Compact_Comparison.pdf
__________________
Haakon 47


'Something magical happens when you bring together a group of people from different disciplines with a common purpose.' Mark Stefik Palo Alto Research Centre Fellow
kahunab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2026, 01:24 PM   #2
shoeless
Grade 1
 
shoeless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,586
What does FRL mean?

Nice presentation

Jeff
shoeless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2026, 01:30 PM   #3
kahunab
Grade 1
 
kahunab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 308
Jeff,
Frl is short for Fractals.

Frl-E is the Early Fractal, Frl-L is the late Fractal and Frl-N is the Neutral Fractal.


Dick
__________________
Haakon 47


'Something magical happens when you bring together a group of people from different disciplines with a common purpose.' Mark Stefik Palo Alto Research Centre Fellow
kahunab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2026, 05:02 PM   #4
Ted Craven
Grade 1
 
Ted Craven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 9,238
Thanks for the detailed study Dick. An underused set of Factors.

What use do you make of this data? How does it help you refine your contender and betting choices, so far? Do you find it helps narrow betting prospects in ways that other factors (VDC, BLBL, Profitline/PrimePower, Rx3) do not?

Or was this an inquiry so far to see what's what - if there was anything useful?

Ted
__________________

R
DSS -
Racing Decision Support System™
Ted Craven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2026, 10:29 PM   #5
DELMARGRANT
Grade 1
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 130
Nice chart thanks!
DELMARGRANT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2026, 12:08 PM   #6
shoeless
Grade 1
 
shoeless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,586
Thanks, Dick, for the explanation and good job

I think Dan could add to this

Jeff
shoeless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2026, 01:32 PM   #7
kahunab
Grade 1
 
kahunab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 308
Ted,
I will try to answer your questions one at a time by breaking them out.

What use do you make of this data?

What prompted the study was I noticed in my handicapping how often a good Frl-E score was a part of the Win and Place horses profile. I still select my contenders with the RMath scores, RX3 and the Leverage Pace scores. When used together these 3 are very powerful contender selectors.

Name:  CD9 1May LP.jpg
Views: 99
Size:  128.8 KB

How does it help you refine your contender and betting choices, so far?
I then use the BL/BL screen and New Pace to select my Key horse. Fractal scores are a great help in making my choice for Key and Companion horses.

Name:  CD9 1May BLbl - Copy.jpg
Views: 97
Size:  128.6 KB

Name:  CD9 1May NewP.jpg
Views: 100
Size:  93.0 KB

Do you find it helps narrow betting prospects in ways that other factors (VDC, BLBL, Profitline/PrimePower, Rx3) do not?
No but it does add another handicapping tool to the tool box. Based on the analysis data below, if we know that the exacta is in the top 5 Fractals ~83%, I think that helps us pick our exacta horses. According to this data we can reach the 55% solution by boxing the top 4 Early Fractal horses in Dirt Sprints.

Name:  FRL Top 5.jpg
Views: 97
Size:  26.9 KB

Or was this an inquiry so far to see what's what - if there was anything useful?

I just did the study this last week, so I have not used the data from the study all that much. I do think that the Early Fractal becomes more powerful with cheaper tracks and cheaper horses, but I don’t have the definitive data to prove it.
__________________
Haakon 47


'Something magical happens when you bring together a group of people from different disciplines with a common purpose.' Mark Stefik Palo Alto Research Centre Fellow
kahunab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2026, 03:07 PM   #8
shoeless
Grade 1
 
shoeless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,586
Dick

Thanks again for latest post, easy to understand

Jeff
shoeless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2026, 11:36 AM   #9
shoeless
Grade 1
 
shoeless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,586
Dan doesn't use this my mistake
shoeless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2026, 02:21 PM   #10
Ted Craven
Grade 1
 
Ted Craven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 9,238
Thanks Dick for the research. I suspect there is even deeper research we can get our AI to do to pinpoint further how Frl-E may be used in ways other factors are not currently - perhaps to both a) confirm existing choices for Key, but also b) add weights to decisions about Companion horses (in the L/P methodology) particularly the 3rd or 4th companion horse which often is the ROI booster in an vertical Key bet (Ex/Tri).

Looking forward to doing more of that deep dive myself, and with you. Especially when we clean up some of those older Exacta and Trifecta mutuel prices (for ROI calculations).

Ted
__________________

R
DSS -
Racing Decision Support System™
Ted Craven is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Revisiting Fractals Psychotic Parakeet General Discussion 3 08-09-2021 03:25 AM
Fractals ginag2 RDSS Documentation -- All Versions 2 08-28-2018 06:55 PM
Question about TS on fractals.. lone speed RDSS 2 01-12-2013 05:10 PM


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:18 AM.