Binder or not

[chrisl]

Just caught this at MNR race #3 I do not know if this a solid Binder because of the 8f route.. Payed nice though...Chrisl

[admin]

Originally Posted by chrisl

Just caught this at MNR race #3 I do not know if this a solid Binder because of the 8f route.. Payed nice though...Chrisl

Hi Chris Yes it is

The 7 horse is tier 4 BLBL and # 1 VDC a perfect example of a Binder Improver
although the do tend to hapen when you mix Rts and sprint lines
nice work

GS
Bill

[Rverge]

yo bill or any one
can someone please explain what "tier" is?
thank you
Rverge

[admin]

Originally Posted by Rverge

yo bill or any one
can someone please explain what "tier" is?
thank you
Rverge

Doc wanted the top 5 or whatever horses rated as the best
but he wanted to have his clients look hard at # 3 #4 # 5 rather than just top 2

Rank 1 to most people is better than Rank 2 Rank 3 is not as good
as rank 1 or 2 ect.

He wanted to use tier instead
When you are in the beautiful Yankee Satdium
you are in the ballpark but there are Tiers of levels
The top 5 tiers are horses that are the best rated but
are all in the same ballpark as contenders
Tier 1 is a bit nicer than 2 but your still in a great place
Hope that makes sense

Up around the bend

Once I got more confidence. I found out that as much as I pushed to win for myself, I found that
Showing people what I did might help them . This really is one of the most pleasant feelings I have gotten . Its nice to meet and see the real person. I enjoy walking around at the racetrack Faces in the crowd pass by, each face has a story , Sure there are the once in a while big players there for a fun day . the father with his family out for a days fun. There are the older guys who bet the top jockeys and trainers. They are consistent, They are always there. The favorites and near favorites come in enough to keep them in the game. There are the guys like my dad. Who are there for a fun chance at a dream big win.
The My Way guys who want more to be the guy who had it when nobody else did
There desires are for the big hit. These guys are the guys you seem to recognize, there big wins are the spotlight you see They are the stars of the day week or month , over time they become part of the crowd of regulars. The biggest group in the place the ones betting almost every race as they come along. The ones who take losses way to hard. The ones who seem to be there asif it was a part of there work day .Not too much joy, They act as if the are there for a job just doing enough to not get fired/tap out I look at the faces of people and study there reactions to races
I can spot the guys like myself who love the game but who need to win for more than to collect a ticket. When somebody asks for help That’s the guy who I want to go meet up with. To be able to work with somebody one on one . Is what I would like to do most, It’s a dream of mine to
Offer myself for one on one workshops, I would love to travel to tracks around the country and offer myself to help I don’t think of myself as a teacher. But some how meeting and just talking to somebody about races seems to show the methodology’s power more than writing messages
Its hard to do many times people just don’t accept the feelings even in spoken words
At Saratoga pace and cap day 2008. I met many people from the Paceadvantage website
Many were nice guys who knew me from my post there and on Pace and cap Its sometimes is hard to explain betting choices to non clients. In trurth have very little handicapping skill. This hurts me now and then but in the big picture it probably is my biggest strength. I just don’t know what the public does and this alone can be a big psychological advantage Doc speaks about this too
How he would be asked “whodoyoulike’ he would say for example the 1 and 3 ..Your wrong everybody knows the rail is dead and so and so is switching from horse 5 to horse 6
Then the 1 and 3 would win or often they placed at good odds and Doc would just collect his money. Not knowing opens up the chances to bet the best horse in todays match up
Knowing how to handicap can teach you who should win On thing I like to do with people in one on one workshops is ask them who do you think should win? Then lets write down that horse
On the program, Now lets work the race and see what horses the program says should win
I have found that the should win horses that do win leave the person with not to much
Responses. But when the programs should win, do The effect is very positive



I feel that these meetings with fellow clients I can show the work that has helped me .This can be

[Ted Craven]

Tier: From Meriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

1 a: a row, rank, or layer of articles; especially : one of two or more rows, levels, or ranks arranged one above another b: a group of political or geographic divisions that form a row across the map <the southern tier of states>

In my experience and reading, Doc Sartin was not above borrowing existing terminology and adapting it (bending it) to new uses in the handicapping domain (e.g. Entropy, Energy, Kinetic, Paragon, Chaos...). Some of it was possibly creative mystique or branding, and some was intended to get people to look at hide-bound concepts in fresh ways.

Tiers include groups of things, levels of things which form a class, or group sharing common traits. In countless Follow Up articles (citations appreciated) he said that tiers were not ranks namely not ordinal ranks (1st, 2nd, 3rd...). He rarely elaborated on exactly what they were, but I think that was by design: you had to figure it out yourself: extrapolate by function. Given the dictionary definition, I treat a tier as including (typically) a group of ranks, each item in the group having about equal rank, or deserving to be considered an equal member of that group, or tier. Thus, if 2 factors (or for BL/BL, an aggregate of factors) were ranked the same, they occupy the same tier - despite which one is shown first, they are both to be considered equal (emphasis on considered: seek corollaries or confirmation before judgement).

Thus, in the screenshot below (from a related post in another thread by Turbulator), the 4 and 10 are both ranked #2 on BL/BL, so they both inhabit the same tier and should be considered equally strong. Despite that the #10 shows up 3rd in order, it is not ranked 3rd, but rather tiered 2nd. Similarly, and perhaps interestingly given the theme in this topic of 'Binder Improvers', the 2 VDC rank 1s (in red) are to be considered of equal rank (i.e. same tier 1 of VDC), despite the #1 being lowest ranked BL/BL.

Although my take on tiers versus ranks is perhaps different than Bill's, I believe it arrives at a similar understanding of Sartin's idea, and the software enabled concept of elevating otherwise lower ranked lines by exhorting you to consider their commonality with more obviously higher ranked lines. Our eye gravitates to and our minds ascribe higher value to things ranked 1 over ranked 2, over 3, etc. In RDSS, I am also trying to employ colour to form a visual picture of items which belong together (i.e. same colour) because they are potentially equally strong.

It's open to debate, and it's only my opinion, given respectfully, but in Bill's screenshot above, I would say the #2 and #3 are in Tier 1 and the #1 and #6 are in Tier 3, while the #5 stands alone in Tier 2.

In the end, I don't think it matters so much debating the nuances of language as it does benefiting from the trick being presented: don't be duped by 'first-itis' or mere ranking - be open to (longer priced) contenders from down the list who will hit often enough to delight and amaze your friends and bankroll.

Ted

[socantra]

Whatever you said sounds good, Ted, but it makes my head hurt. I go for a much more simple minded explanation, from Doc in Follow Up 79.

Dick

[Ted Craven]

Like I said, Doc has his own style! Thanks Dick for the citation. I never understood the difference between a lateral tier and a vertical tier, nor what clarity the adjectives 'lateral' or 'vertical' add to the notion of tier, which seems pretty clear to me.

I agree that what Bill has written above is pretty much what Howard wrote in your excerpt, so I defer to that. Only - if each Tier equals each Rank, then what else is the distinction between tier and rank?

Perhaps the answer is, restated: given 5 pacelines, consider not only the BL/BL rank (i.e. 1-5) but also the other factor ranks on the same line, from which seek corollaries to justify betting on a 3rd or lower BL/BL ranked horse in addition to the Top 2 - all choices being governed by mutuel offered.

Regardless of terminology (tier, rank, position in a vertical list), Bill and numerous others have shown the power of including a 3rd+ ranked BL/BL horse in a 2 horse wager if the corollaries support it.

?

Ted

[Rverge]

it's explained to me, very nice.
thank you
Rverge

[socantra]

Originally Posted by Ted Craven

Like I said, Doc has his own style! Thanks Dick for the citation. I never understood the difference between a lateral tier and a vertical tier, nor what clarity the adjectives 'lateral' or 'vertical' add to the notion of tier, which seems pretty clear to me.

I agree that what Bill has written above is pretty much what Howard wrote in your excerpt, so I defer to that. Only - if each Tier equals each Rank, then what else is the distinction between tier and rank?

Ted

I have to agree about being totally bewildered by the difference between a lateral and vertical tier. I think it is largely a matter of choosing terminology that you thought was clever and then being forced to defend your choice.

To me though, the difference in tier and rank is that tier assumes little or no difference in value, while rank has a very strong valuation placed upon it. Think of a three tier wedding cake. Which one is better, the bottom, top or middle tier?

In another Follow Up of the same period, Doc suggests that if you insist on remaining linear in your thinking, and attaching a value to the tiers, take the 'will pay' figure for each horse and subtract the tier level (or ranking, if you insist). If the tier 1 horse pays $4.80, subtract 1 and you have a value of $3.80. Tier 2 pays $8.00, so its 'value' is $6.00. Tier 3 pays $12.00 and has a value of $9.00. With such a procedure, it becomes easy to see which tier presents the most 'value'.


Dick