Tampa trainers threaten to boycott entry box - Pace and Cap

trotman · 03-09-2012, 05:44 PM

Rumor has it that the Tampa trainers are threatning to boycott the entry box due to the ongoing Jamie Ness fiasco at this track. Their handle is falling like a rock off the Empire State building and with the mild weather in the northern States and Canada a number of trainers have already left to head back to their home bases. Just another example of how this game shoots itself in the foot.

bobp · 03-10-2012, 11:16 AM

what was this all about???

lsosa54 · 03-10-2012, 11:34 AM

As Beyer wrote, Tampa's problem is more than Jamie Ness but I hear you. Here is a direct quote from Jamie in a 2010 article:

"I make my living out of the claiming box,” he says. Before he drops a claim on a horse, he studies the Daily Racing Form, looks at other trainer’s tendencies, watches replays, views the horse as they walk into the paddock, watches the race and always studies the horse after the race. “I can tell a lot about a horse after he/she races’ he said."

Couldn't you and I win almost half our races this way, Trot? 44% at Tampa and 34% nationally.

Here's a quote from the Beyer article:

"Trainer Tom Proctor, a nationally respected horseman, gave up on the once-classy Escort and dropped him into a $10,000 claiming race, which he lost by seven lengths. His career as an effective racehorse appeared to be finished, but Ness nevertheless claimed him and entered him three weeks later. Escort was made the odds-on favorite solely because of his new trainer’s mystique, but betting against the mystique wouldn’t have been a smart idea. Escort promptly won by 15 lengths. If Ness can improve so dramatically upon a trainer of Proctor’s stature, he can do anything. Accordingly, gamblers don’t want to bet against him and may prefer to avoid races where he is a presence. Rival trainers don’t want to run against him. Ness’s last three winners paid $2.60, $5.40, and $3.20 – all in fields of six. So much for the big fields and big payoffs that have made Tampa popular."

Seriously, though, I think he mainly trains for Midwest Thoroughbreds and runs at OP, TAM, PID, PENN, MNR, and similar. They run cheap horses and they run them very frequently and seem to ignore class level and whether they will get claimed or not, so maybe it's a matter of numbers.

Even so, don't think he will break Kirk Ziadie's TAM single meet record of 50% for the 2003-04 meet. Of course Kirk was clean - only 31 meds violations in 6 years.

trotman · 03-12-2012, 05:46 PM

Isosa54 from when I started in this game there was no doubt in my mind there were games played. What I have a hard time swallowing in this day and age is that The Ness's, Ziadie's, Dutrow's and others have made a mockery of the game and the regulators that oversee the game. I will always believe that if there is one body that rules with an iron fist then this goes away. To make a point Midwest-Thoroughbreds is screwing everyone and not just them, you have Frank Calabrese out of Chicago who does much the same. Don't ever refer to horse racing as an old boys club thay all died off or got out. It's the new boys pushing their weight around because of numbers and the officials are turning a blind eye.

chris · 03-13-2012, 12:49 PM

A good book from an insider, of what's going on in racing today, how we arrived at this juncture, and a clear picture of the actors involved. Jim Squires, the author, is a former journalist and breeder of some repute who is a refreshing voice and welcome antidote to the usual chatter we hear about racing.... if you can't find a copy, let me know I'll send you mine; just treat it gently and return it in a timely manner.

Regards,
chris

dlivery · 03-13-2012, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris

A good book from an insider, of what's going on in racing today, how we arrived at this juncture, and a clear picture of the actors involved. Jim Squires, the author, is a former journalist and breeder of some repute who is a refreshing voice and welcome antidote to the usual chatter we hear about racing.... if you can't find a copy, let me know I'll send you mine; just treat it gently and return it in a timely manner.

Regards,
chris

Hi
Thank you I would not not hesitate to your offer but before that offering I wouldn't mind check the amazon site to see if it's available there

Lawrence

03-09-2012, 05:44 PM	#1
trotman Grade 1 Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 259	Tampa trainers threaten to boycott entry box Rumor has it that the Tampa trainers are threatning to boycott the entry box due to the ongoing Jamie Ness fiasco at this track. Their handle is falling like a rock off the Empire State building and with the mild weather in the northern States and Canada a number of trainers have already left to head back to their home bases. Just another example of how this game shoots itself in the foot. __________________ "Success consists of simply getting back up one more time than you fall"

03-12-2012, 05:46 PM	#4
trotman Grade 1 Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 259	Isosa54 from when I started in this game there was no doubt in my mind there were games played. What I have a hard time swallowing in this day and age is that The Ness's, Ziadie's, Dutrow's and others have made a mockery of the game and the regulators that oversee the game. I will always believe that if there is one body that rules with an iron fist then this goes away. To make a point Midwest-Thoroughbreds is screwing everyone and not just them, you have Frank Calabrese out of Chicago who does much the same. Don't ever refer to horse racing as an old boys club thay all died off or got out. It's the new boys pushing their weight around because of numbers and the officials are turning a blind eye. __________________ "Success consists of simply getting back up one more time than you fall"

03-13-2012, 12:49 PM	#5
chris Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Richfield, MN Posts: 182	"Headless Horsmen" A good book from an insider, of what's going on in racing today, how we arrived at this juncture, and a clear picture of the actors involved. Jim Squires, the author, is a former journalist and breeder of some repute who is a refreshing voice and welcome antidote to the usual chatter we hear about racing.... if you can't find a copy, let me know I'll send you mine; just treat it gently and return it in a timely manner. Regards, chris

03-10-2012, 11:16 AM	#2
bobp Grade 1 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: The Woodlands Texas Posts: 154	what was this all about???

03-10-2012, 11:34 AM	#3
lsosa54 Grade 1 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: NYC and San Diego Posts: 627	As Beyer wrote, Tampa's problem is more than Jamie Ness but I hear you. Here is a direct quote from Jamie in a 2010 article: "I make my living out of the claiming box,” he says. Before he drops a claim on a horse, he studies the Daily Racing Form, looks at other trainer’s tendencies, watches replays, views the horse as they walk into the paddock, watches the race and always studies the horse after the race. “I can tell a lot about a horse after he/she races’ he said." Couldn't you and I win almost half our races this way, Trot? 44% at Tampa and 34% nationally. Here's a quote from the Beyer article: "Trainer Tom Proctor, a nationally respected horseman, gave up on the once-classy Escort and dropped him into a $10,000 claiming race, which he lost by seven lengths. His career as an effective racehorse appeared to be finished, but Ness nevertheless claimed him and entered him three weeks later. Escort was made the odds-on favorite solely because of his new trainer’s mystique, but betting against the mystique wouldn’t have been a smart idea. Escort promptly won by 15 lengths. If Ness can improve so dramatically upon a trainer of Proctor’s stature, he can do anything. Accordingly, gamblers don’t want to bet against him and may prefer to avoid races where he is a presence. Rival trainers don’t want to run against him. Ness’s last three winners paid $2.60, $5.40, and $3.20 – all in fields of six. So much for the big fields and big payoffs that have made Tampa popular." Seriously, though, I think he mainly trains for Midwest Thoroughbreds and runs at OP, TAM, PID, PENN, MNR, and similar. They run cheap horses and they run them very frequently and seem to ignore class level and whether they will get claimed or not, so maybe it's a matter of numbers. Even so, don't think he will break Kirk Ziadie's TAM single meet record of 50% for the 2003-04 meet. Of course Kirk was clean - only 31 meds violations in 6 years.