Entropy 2- Betting to Place

[ray lopez]

#8 Talent Seeker...(not Timeseeker)...sorry for the wrong name of the horse.

[ray lopez]

I'm retired and have plenty of time in my hands so this 'betting to place' idea came to me in instances when I can't stay infront of my computer checking the odds for 2-horse-win betting...My grandkids always ask me to play with them or go to the park and I want to bet in advance,and this place betting idea came to me...I still prefer 2-horse bets when I got access to the odds but in times I want to play golf or the wife wants to go to the movies,this type of betting works for me...

[wilbur porter]

I handicapped and watched Parx Race 3 at race time with the same selection as Ted without paying much attention to the VDC. I had also handicapped Race 7 but I was so bored with the selections that I didn't pay that race much attention. Then later this evening when i read the posts by Ray and Bill, I went back to my selections. I had a different selection in my Rdss than Bill - I had chosen horse #5 rather than #2 as a sustained selection in a fast pace race and had chosen to use his 3rd race back on April 14th. I used the TE's, and even though horse #1 had scratched, # 8 was still rather low in the segment ratings:



But he did have a V/DC of 0.0, the lowest, better than the 1A. This seems to endorse the Entropy model. I am including the BL window as well:



The corollaries of #8 look even more weak but nevertheless his V/DC is the lowest, a "1". Does this indicate that Ray's "Place Wagering" with Entropy 2 is also possible with the RDSS 2 V/DC. Ted says that it is the same. I'm also a retiree. This would be a great play to add to my handicapping.
Minutes to handicap, hours to figure out the screen capture. Watched Ted and BILL finally!

[Bill V.]

Hello Ray and Wilbur

I really did not intend to post race 7 as a handicapped race.
I did not want to compare RDSS to Entropy.

This is the classic programs forum,
I did make a long reply to Ted. I had many doubts to Ted comment that VDC is all the entropy readouts rolled into one.
I made a very long post explaining why I think this is a comment
that is not 100% true. but I decided to delete it.

I only picked lines for some horses that did not
cause RDSS to have to make a big adjustment.
I tried to keep the lines as close to 6 furlongs as I could. The purpose of my post was to show that RDSS and Entropy calculate the race, and things like Total Energy Energy Excertion and VDC ( the final sort) differently.
I tried to use only plus recent pace lines for my demonstration
It was not meant as a handicapping demo. I just want to be clear about that.

So I am sure you guys get different results than I about race
7

[wilbur porter]

Yes, Bill, I think that I understand what you're saying. That was my original impression as well from my limited reading, that there would likely be some differences, but I assumed that basically they are the same. I didn't mean to open up a can of worms. I know that you and Ray, experienced and knowledgeable Sartin handicappers, are coming from a different place than myself.
I'm slowly coming to understand how complex this RDSS software is, as well as the earlier Sartin programs that you use. I got a hint of that by reading some of the Follow Ups about the past upgrades of software. I don't think that many members or evaluators understand the amount of thought and work put into these programs. Because Ted has made RDSS so easy to use, some of us most likely use it like a video game without thought of what went into it's development.
My post was not meant to counter yours in regards to handicapping. I almost didn't post because I respect your ideas and posts so much that my very little understanding of Entropy, V/CD, RDSS or the entire Sartin Methodology would show. I respect so much of what you have put into the forum and that, like Ted, you see and understand things about the nuances of the software and handicapping that most of us cannot appreciate. That is why I have gone back to reading the last 500 threads that you have started and begun studying and following your methods handicapping with all of my PHA/Parx races dating back through 2010.
So I'm not here to flatter you. Thanks. I think I understand where you're coming from and in this matter I trust your knowledge and experience.

[ray lopez]

I would like to thank Bill V. for his support and help to all members..for always being there for us.
Thank you also to Ted for his patience and continuous work to the future of the Sartin program.We all can look forward and to the future and we have hope that our software keeps in touch with today and the future.
These two guys handle everything in aprofessional manner and with class.They are our brothers...My salute to you,Bill V and Ted.

Ray

[ray lopez]

And the old Sartin programs I'm still using like Entropy/Exdc/Thoromation and Val4,it still works ...but it may not be able to work someday,like Trackmaster can change their speed ratings and track variants ...I know that with RDSS 2 and Ted behind it,we have hope for today and tomorrow because Ted listens to all suggestions and improvements he can make to RDSS...Again,thanks Ted and Bill V.

[Bill V.]

I did a much more complex demo of this on Saturday
with a member here .

I would like you to look at this horse Bellamy X #5 Its a E7 no doubt it will go right to the lead is there ? also in this race is horse 7



Horse 7 is also a E need the lead horse



One of the interesting things about entropy is that the total energy
readouts for each horse will change based on the other horses you match it against

Look at Horse 5 if I only enter its last pace line it gets a raw total energy of 152.30 it gets adjusted by a little to 152.29







Now lets see what happens when I add
Horse 7 -the other early need the lead horse I will also add the winner of this race. horse # 2's fastest
route paceline at a comparable distance.
That would be line 6. Line 8 is faster but lest compare 8 furlong distances.

Here we see horse 7 and 2 are faster than
horse 5 in this match up .






Entropy show me that horse 5 will have to run faster early and Entropy shows this on this readout.

Look how horse 5 now is running at
154.05


This does not happen in RDSS. with total energy
The total energy is the same if you enter 1 line or many other lines
from other horses. a horses paceline is adjusted to a fixed number

This is a big reason Entropy gets different readouts

[Bill V.]

Originally Posted by ray lopez

And the old Sartin programs I'm still using like Entropy/Exdc/Thoromation and Val4,it still works ...but it may not be able to work someday,like Trackmaster can change their speed ratings and track variants ...I know that with RDSS 2 and Ted behind it,we have hope for today and tomorrow because Ted listens to all suggestions and improvements he can make to RDSS...Again,thanks Ted and Bill V.

Thanks Ray

I am desperately looking forward to Ted adding the export feature

On thing about Entropy If you use raw pace lines you don't need to worry about speed rating and track varients
Entropy does not use them

[Ted Craven]

Originally Posted by ray lopez

And the old Sartin programs I'm still using like Entropy/Exdc/Thoromation and Val4,it still works ...but it may not be able to work someday,like Trackmaster can change their speed ratings and track variants ...I know that with RDSS 2 and Ted behind it,we have hope for today and tomorrow because Ted listens to all suggestions and improvements he can make to RDSS...Again,thanks Ted and Bill V.

Thank you for the kind words Ray! Continued success to you with all the 'oldies but goodies' programs.

And YES, Bill V is an international treasure, with his breadth and depth of knowledge of all programs new and old, and his love of teaching. Thank you Bill!

Ted