class structure

[Tim Y]

A teleological school of thought is one that holds all things to be designed for or directed toward a final result, that there is an inherent purpose or final cause for all that exists....often times that purpose is inherent believed BEFORE the data is evaluated....Looking for something specific to OVERLAY on the results whatever they may be. Always a danger in scientific evaluation. The nex jump is cause and effect when often the two things just happened at the same time.

I.E. "Reagan defeated Communism" when it fact, all that happened was that the USSR disbanded while he was in office. The teleological argument would create cause and effect when there was none.

[tom]

Originally Posted by Tim Y

Horses simply RUN and do not know who they run against,,,,,The HORSES, (you know the ones actually doing the running) would run to their abilities and form cycle if they ran against Zippy Chippy or Citation.

Do not agree at all. I don't about cats and can openers, or all that other noise your threw into this, but the fact is horses that ship to FL from NYRA improve dramatically - run well beyond anything they have ever shown before, in terms of time, improving be seconds! This has been going on for at least 40 years that I have seen, and at many other track as well. Often a horse will run it's best race ever on the drop, then continue to run better than ever at the right levels. Horses are not machines. You are cashing a different subset of winners than those who use class, but you hardly have a monopoly.

[Tim Y]

The horses running at the NYRA are just better than the FL horses. HORSES, the ones doing the racing, are better, NOT the class structure.

[tom]

DUH?

That is the point.....they handle faster paces at FL than they ever did at NYRA....why? Because the other horses are classier at NYRA.

[Tim Y]

Originally Posted by tom

DUH?

That is the point.....they handle faster paces at FL than they ever did at NYRA....why? Because the other horses are classier at NYRA.

The horses, NOT the human overlayed class structure, works out yet again. The best horses win, not those assigned to any particular class level. The class structure is irrelevant.

[For The Lead]

Originally Posted by Tim Y

A typical Overlay (data placed on what one WANTS to see from it) reflecting the subjective evaluations of the handlers diffused by numbers. One often sees this in poor experiential design especially when the researcher is trying to find an answer rather than letting the data speak: Once saw a horrible study done in Scandinavia about cancer clusters where the study LIMITED observations to power line associated cancer clusters rather than the incidence of cancer in association with ALL power lines: OF COURSE it was going to show a correlation because the experimental design set it up for that.

Horses simply RUN and do not know who they run against,,,,,The HORSES, (you know the ones actually doing the running) would run to their abilities and form cycle if they ran against Zippy Chippy or Citation.

Tim, you really need to get a grip, man. One person posts a question about horse racing and you come back with baseball.

Another guy posts a question about horse racing and you come back with zoology.

Then when you are faced with facts based on 80,000 + races over two years, you come back with cancer! I mean, try to stay focused and on track.

This is real easy.
A bunch of horses are entered into a race.
The race is run.
One of them wins.
The winner is either dropping down in class off his last race....
Coming back at the same class level as his last race.........or
Going up in class of his last race.
That IS the data speaking for itself.

Nothing is slanted in any direction.
The results are what they are and that's all that they are.
Nobody is trying to "find" anything. The results are the results. There are only 3 possibilities. The winner must fall into one of them (save for a first time starter). It just so happens the large majority of the winners fall into one of the first two categories mentioned above.

Sorry, but that IS the way it IS.

[tom]

It would be so easy if horses ran the same race every time. They do not.
Understanding that they are not machines and react to the fields they race in, class becomes a key to help find what race the horse might bring today, that's all.

[gl45]

tom, FTL,
told you guys. TY will never agree with you. He knows more than everybody, and will debate any of you to the end of time with his BS.

[Tim Y]

Originally Posted by lbj

tom, FTL,
told you guys. TY will never agree with you. He knows more than everybody, and will debate any of you to the end of time with his BS.

When you come to a debate, you bring facts and data: no one can show this "intimidation" with a single scientific study. Until then, facts trump "feelings."

Horses are herd animals taken OUT of their natural environment: NOTHING about their natural world can relate to the totally unnatural world they are placed in at the race track.

OVERLAYING data to fit a conclusion is an OLD and very pitiful teleological way of trying to relate cause and effect. It has never worked in true scientific study

When horses come together,one wins because it was the best today. The "man made class" it was,or is in, is, and was, irrelevant.

[For The Lead]

Ok, Tim, here's a FACT for you. Dr. Fager was a stone cold early speed horse. One time at Rockingham Park, In Reality came along side of Dr. Fager on the inside, Dr. Fager put his ears back and lunged at In Reality to savage him like a dog. I'd call THAT intimidation, wouldn't you? It's a FACT. Look it up. That’s how competitive he was. He didn’t want to see any horse in front of him.